As posted earlier, the second throttle return spring didn’t cure the fast idle. Turns out that it may have simply been that the throttle body end of the cable was misadjusted too short. When cold, opening the throttle plate (at the throttle body) always resulted in a reassuring snap as it was released, closing completely. When warm, however, it was more of a soft “thump”, and the cable appeared to be keeping it from closing completely. Because of the hot weather, it’s unpleasant driving any open-top car, so it’ll probably be tested in the garage.
Regarding the lathe, cleaning up the new (though older) one took maybe 20 hours—it was a mess. Once done, four nice but expensive leveling caster wheels were placed under the 2500-lb lump, in addition to two traditional leveling screws. At first I wasn’t going to bother, but the thought of having to move that much weight ever again, even once, made it an easier decision. Also, it raises the lathe 4″, putting it at a better working level. Speaking of moving it, a neat tool for moving anything really heavy is an indexable pry bar, sort of a big crowbar with an adjustable foot. Between that, wood blocks, steel bars, and the castor wheels, the two lathes swapped positions.
Since it’s 3-phase, a variable frequency drive was connected and briefly run to prove it works, but playing with the new one was pushed off until the old lathe could be cleaned up and put up for sale. I’ve been watching Craigslist long enough to know what I was in for, and expected odd/irritating/lazy/wishy-washy/scammy people, and I was not disappointed. Not 30 minutes after the ad was posted, I received this from someone who hadn’t even seen it:
I will be buying this from you, so please kindly withdraw the advert from site. My husband will overnight the payment asap but he will be paying with a Certified Check from his Bank and it will deliver to you via FEDEX, so I’ll need you to provide me with the following information to facilitate the mailing of the check… And am offering additional $70 with the original price to have this asap.
Name to be on the payment……….. Address to mail the check to…………. City, state and zip code …………. Final Asking price………………. Cell phone # to text you on …………….
I will make arrangements for the pick up as soon as you have your check clear, due to my work frame and my Kids, I will not be able to come with the cash and pick it up so my husband will mail the check and have someone pick up the item after the check clear., Reference to your post am completely satisfied with it and the payment will be deliver within 48hours..God Bless
The way the scam works is that since it’s a certified check, a bank will instantly clear it, the buyer picks up the lathe and vanishes, and about a week later, the bank calls up and says, “yeah, about that check, it’s no good.” Hard not to wish something bad upon such slimy “godly” people. I’m surprised that banks don’t have an immediate way to check such things, but oh well. Another tidbit to the scam is the “offer” to send the check via FedEx. That’s to avoid mailing it through the U.S. postal system, where mail fraud has much harsher punishment.
The new lathe is being upgraded to a “multifix” tool post. Granted it’s from China (it’s not manufactured by anyone in the U.S, and is actually a Swiss design). The machinist forums speak very highly of it, so a set was ordered. Upon arrival, I was puzzled by a big tool holder in the box that I hadn’t ordered. It must have weighed at least 5-lbs on its own. Curious, I contacted the seller and they said that shipping is actually cheaper for them if they weigh it down so it gets bumped to the next weight tier. Okay…
Lastly, it looks like the chuck may have to be upgraded as well. While it’s a desirable part (a 9″ Buck ‘tru-set’ chuck”, but is completely worn out). Worse, someone ran a drill through the jaws, removing all the teeth, and the jaws are hard or impossible to replace, and these appeared slightly tapered. It’s not terrible, since it was somewhat expected that it might need upgrading. Besides, as a machinist once told me, “you should buy the best quality chuck you can, then put a lathe under it.”
I have the parts needed to rebuild the Grizzly 13 x 36 lathe, but couldn’t move it because my brother was using the engine hoist. The idea was to rebuild it, making a custom stand with a set of real drawers. The thing is, after all the work and expense, it wouldn’t be worth what I’d put into it, so I was hesitating. At the same time, I was on a metalworking forum thread that had a thread about a really cool yet somewhat-obscure lathe, designed by Takisawa, built in Taiwan, and imported by Webb and others. Turns out that a forum member who owns one lives locally, so I went over to check it out. It’s a 2500-lb beast—a “real” lathe—and while the same size as the Grizzly, is twice as heavy and much more heavy duty due to having a one-piece casting that includes the legs. Most importantly to me, the owner said that out of the dozen or so lathe brands he’s owned over the years, he’s keeping this one—that statement carried a lot of weight with me.
The tipping point came when he later forwarded me an ad for one, and not only was it very local*, but also very affordable. To make a long story short, I bought it, a Webb/Takisawa TSL-800 14 x 30 lathe, manufactured in 1978. The downside is that it only came with a chuck and a so-so quality quick-change tool post. Lacking were many of the usual accessories such as a four-jaw chuck, tool holders, collet closer, collets, taper attachment, steady rest, and follow rest. The most bothersome thing, however, was it not having any change gears, necessary for cutting threads. These came as a set with the lathes, always included, but weren’t there, and is unfortunately a common story. I think it’s due to the lathe being one big casting; the 2-speed 5 hp motor consumes the inside of the left leg, and oddly, the right leg is empty, but with no door or shelf. Because of this, nothing can be stored in the lathe, so owners are left to store everything elsewhere, where it’s eventually forgotten about and often thrown out. The seller had purchased the lathe new, so they should have them. The catch is that they’ve moved twice before, which may spell doom for the gears. The shop is in the process of moving a third time, and as the lathe was being loaded onto the truck, I asked about the gears one last time, this time to an older employee. He said that he remembers seeing them in a wooden box, years ago, and would keep an eye out for them during the move. We’ll see.
The lathe was fully assessed once it got home. It’s amazingly dirty, and while it was expected to see dried oil and dirt in the usual areas, this one’s more evenly dirty everywhere. It’s almost like it had been somewhere with an aerosol form of oil/adhesive/paint floating around. If it was just oil, I’d expect WD40 on a rag to remove it. Whatever this stuff is, it’s really on there, and so far I’ve used up 1.5 gallons of acetone, the only thing that can remove it. The original paint color is battleship gray, which I kind of like. Under that is body filler over a bright orange primer coat. There’s a story here, as well: owners of this model theorize that the factory got a bad batch of body filler that never cured (or maybe they never added catalyst?), and worse, over time it loses adhesion with the underlying primer coat. As a result, both the filler and gray paint come off in patches, leaving bright orange areas. Before I started cleaning, I was planning to tear it down for paint. As cleaning progresses though, the embattled look is kind of growing on me (think of it as a “rat lathe”). The decision to leave it as-is is strengthened by an owner who tore his down for paint, saying later that dealing with the Bondo dust and paint made him wish that he had never started. And then there’s the sump…
Being a real lathe means that it has a coolant sump and pump setup. The central area where chips collect has a grate and screen at the bottom to allow coolant through into the sump. The grate and screen had long since clogged up and been covered by chips. The seller said they hadn’t used coolant in years, so it seemed like a non-issue. Yes, well… I took the screen off and what I saw and smelled defines description. Actually, I can, I just hope you aren’t eating: imagine being told to clean out a portable toilet with just gloves and paper towels. Yup, kinda like that. Moving on, once that’s done, since coolant won’t be used, the pump is coming off and a blanking plate sealed in place of the drain screen. In addition, the entire electrical system is being removed in anticipation of running exclusively on a Variable Frequency Drive. The one that’s on the way has a power switch, direction switch, and speed control built-in, so it’s pretty much plug-and-play.
Somewhat related, the brake pedal doesn’t work other than turning off the motor, which then coasts. With a large chuck spinning at high speed, stopping takes a long time—now I know why. I thought that the brake lining had just worn out, and perhaps it had, because the shop had removed it completely. That actually worked in my favor since it helped negotiate a lower price. The brake pedal switch will be wired into the VFD to activate electronic braking, which allows retaining the physical pedal as functional.
Other issues included an oddly-cocked gear lever on the quick-change gear box. I couldn’t understand why the lever wasn’t aligned with the labeled panel positions, yet seemed to work, so I wanted to remove the cover to see what was going on. Removing the cover, however, meant removing the levers first. One came off fine, but the split pin in the other would budge. I eventually figured out that someone or something had forced the lever and doing so had partially sheared the split pin, misaligning the holes and making it impossible to remove. That answered the alignment question, so the only answer seemed to be to force it further until the pin sheared completely, while hoping that it could still be slid off the shaft, which it thankfully could be.
There are also several damaged/destroyed ball oilers. Hopefully they aren’t too hard to find replacements for, just have to measure the bore and assume that they’re metric (update: they seem to be imperial size…). I saw a suggestion somewhere to drill them oversize so fractional inch units could be swapped in. That’s all fine if the lathe is completely torn down, but if it not, it gets chips into all the worst places.
It may sound like a lot of issues, but I enjoy the journey. Nothing serious has been found, all the gears and bearings look and feel great, and all the issues have so far either been resolved or at least figured out.
A couple other tidbits: In today’s dollars, this would have sold for approximately $16,000, which is believable. I’m considering whether to make a wheeled stand for it. Due to its weight, moving it is a really big deal, and being able to retract the feet and push it around is tempting. Lastly, since Grizzly is mentioned up top, here’s an upbeat video about the history of the company and its founder: https://youtu.be/eBQk1WmXpm4. It’s neat to see that with hard work, and even when starting out with no money, it’s still possible to become a success.
* If you are considering a lathe, mill, or some other heavy piece of equipment, be sure to factor in moving it. The first place I called quoted $700-1000 to move it three miles. The second place charged $280, so the amount can be a big part of any “deal” you find. The alternative is to rent a heavy equipment trailer. It’s specially built for the job, heavy duty, and the trailer bed drops straight down to ground level instead of tipping. Because I didn’t have the time, or a way to move it onto the trailer, I elected to pay to have it moved, but next time, I’d consider moving it myself.
The first earthquake happened while we were on the freeway, and didn’t notice anything (and I don’t think anyone else did, either, since we’re about 180 miles from the epicenter). The second one, though, was much stronger, hitting while we were at home. I was watching TV and gradually got an odd sensation, where if your heart rate is just right, it can resonate with your height, and gradually start you rocking back and forth slightly. I thought it was that at first, but it kept increasing in intensity, and eventually saw the lights starting to move. It lasted for quite a while, maybe 20-25 seconds, then faded out as slowly as it started. That’s the thing about earthquakes; when you feel one start, you never know if it’s going to be The One, or if it’ll stay docile and bow out gracefully.
My brother just got his replacement engine running; you may remember that his belt tensioner locked up, shredding the alternator belt, which then ate the dry sump pump belt, resulting in zero oil pressure, and the engine was done. The new engine has a more aggressive cam in it, and he’s rather pleased with himself about the lopping idle. Having the engine running now gives time to ensure it’s solid before we head to the hill climb.
Speaking of having a solid car, I drove Midlana about 70 miles, in part to test whether adding the second throttle return spring fixed the hanging idle… nope. The engine will be warmed up so that it’s repeatable (only happens hot), then confirm whether it really is a sticky throttle plate, or the intake control valve. If it’s the latter, I’ll spray some carburetor cleaner into the idle control valve port as a quick fix to see if it really is that. If it is, it’s surprising that it’s happening so soon after a full cleaning. Of course, it could also be the idle control software loop, though that seems unlikely since it worked fine before and the tune hasn’t changed. If that doesn’t smoothly resolve itself, it’ll be time to figure it out via the ECU log files.
Lastly, some mischief has been afoot on the shop side of things, because something irresistible was found and will be here next week.